As bestselling authors, digital content creators, podcast hosts, and winners of the globe-trotting reality series The Amazing Race, Penn and Kim Holderness have built a broad platform; widely known for their upbeat videos featuring sketch comedy and original music, they have also written two books for adults, Everybody Fights and ADHD Is Awesome. Now, they have created their first picture book, All You Can Be with ADHD, a rhyming celebration of how special it can be to have a brain that works differently. Like all of their content, the book encompasses their family’s lived experience; Penn and the couple’s son have ADHD. We spoke with the Holdernesses about their latest project as they were gearing up for a national book tour, which kicked off this week.
Why did you want to do a children’s book?
Kim: We had the privilege of going on a book tour for ADHD Is Awesome, and at every single stop, there were kids who were going through the book with highlighters and Post-it notes. And they asked, “When are you going to write a kids’ book?” It just seemed like such a natural extension.
And secondly, we are obsessed with children’s books. Our kids are now 15 and 18, but we had them in picture books way longer than the recommendation that they sell you at the bookstore. Penn laughs when I say this, but it was always my dream for him to be a children’s book author, because when he would read books to our children, he would be reading the page, and then he would just freestyle rhyme the rest of the story, making up characters as he went. This is a really weird talent, and our kids can’t be the only people who benefit from this. So, we have always wanted to write a children’s book, and all the stars aligned.
How did this project come together?
Penn: It was very different. We imagined, how do we take ADHD Is Awesome and tailor it for children? We decided to take parts one and two of that original book, which is about making sure that people know that they’re not alone, that a good life is out there, that there are millions of people like this, that some of them are very famous and successful, and that yes, there are some parts of this that are really, really hard, but there are some upsides as well. That was our main messaging, and we thought, “It’s a picture book.” We came up with the idea of a treehouse clubhouse, where everyone’s invited. Then we found some random stuff to go along with it, because ADHDers like random stuff.
We took phone calls or meetings with four or five different publishers, the bones of this book already written. Little, Brown came back very quickly with, number one, an understanding of what we were trying to do. And number two, a really aggressive timeline to get it out sooner than later because we realized there is some urgency for children and families to have this. And, number three, they had enough faith in us to sign a multi-book deal.
Kim: We work in the internet world where if we have an idea today, we can put it on the internet tomorrow. Little, Brown was like, “Yeah, we need to accelerate this timeline. Let’s go!”
Were you able to communicate with illustrator Vin Vogel about any elements that were important for you to include in the book?
Penn: He didn’t need much. We were lucky to work with someone who read the manuscript and felt it in the same way that we did. He’s random in all the right ways; he’s whimsical. I’m looking at the cover, and we didn’t ask him to have a ninja hanging upside down out of the tree...
Kim: …or a squirrel twirling a nut. What I loved most about the process is that we would say things like, could you make the kid look disappointed, but not sad? And he would come back with the perfect solution, capturing the character perfectly. It’s one of those things I say, like, AI could never do this.
Penn: We didn’t give him a note saying, ‘Hey, Vin, we’d like this to be a very inclusive book.’ And on the first pass he just did it. It’s really important to us to get this into hands of all different types of kids. There are severely under-diagnosed children in Black and brown communities with ADHD as well.
Kim: And he included kids of different abilities. We hope that every kid with ADHD can see themselves.
How did writing for kids compare to your other writing, for your videos and podcast and adult books?
Kim: I imagine going into Penn’s brain, and it looks like a picture book. I think that we all look like Muppets to him, and it’s a cartoon world he’s living in where everything rhymes. Although I did definitely contribute, in the back matter for sure, this was mostly Penn. So, for me, it was just a joy, because I’m like, ‘Oh, this is great! This is so fun! Keep going!’
Penn: In our work, usually one of us takes the lead on a project, and the other person de facto becomes the editor. And we have learned how to play both roles.
How are you imagining the different audiences for this book?
Penn: I hope it’s in schools. I hope it’s in libraries. I imagine it mostly in bedrooms. I’m not sure why, but this feels like a fun but also intimate way to start a conversation between a parent and their child. It allows the kid to realize that they’re not alone, that they should feel accepted, that there are some upsides to it, that things are going to be okay.
Kim: I love the idea of a teacher or a librarian reading this to a class where the students can learn a little bit about their ADHD friend’s brain, that they can develop some empathy about how cool it is, but also realize, this is probably really hard for my friend. When we did our first book [about ADHD], we got so many emails, and I’ve also had close personal friends who got their kids diagnosed for ADHD, and then, when doing the intake form, realized, “Oh, wait, this is me.” So, these women have been diagnosed at age 45, 50. We got an initial box of copies of the picture book, and I had given it to my friend who was just diagnosed and—she sobbed. You can be the cheerleader for your kid, and you can tell your kid all the right things, but when it comes down to it, as a woman, it’s different. It’s just so important to feel like you’re not alone; there’s no shame in this.
Penn: They probably also felt like this all stems from childhood, right? ADHD is present in your whole life. If you get diagnosed when you’re an adult, it’s not because you just caught it. It’s an opportunity for people to revisit their childhood with a little bit of reconciliation. That happened to me too. I got diagnosed in adulthood, but was able to go back and say, oh, man, I was an awkward kid, but there’s a reason for it. That can be cathartic.
Kim: You can give some grace to the nine-year-old version of yourself, who maybe was the one that teachers couldn’t understand, or people called you weird.
Can you talk about your next children’s book?
The next book that we are putting together is where it’s time to get to work. Like, what are some fun ways that that we can brush our teeth and make our bed and be helpful around the house? And why is it that I hate chores so much, what’s going on? And really, again, you’re not alone. We ADHDers all feel this way. It’s what adults would call putting system in place, or, more colloquially, a hack that will help you kind of get through the day.
Kim: From there, we love the children’s book space and would also be super curious about something like a tween graphic novel.
Do you have plans to use your platform to support other causes that are important to you?
Kim: We realize we have a gift of this platform; we have a microphone for some reason. Wouldn’t it have been great, Penn, if when you were a kid, you had somebody out there you could look up to as a positive example?
Penn: For a whole generation of us that’s true.
Kim: If we can use our platform to help erase the shame of neurodiversity, that would be the best. I hope we’re remembered for that. I hope that’s something that people can take away, not just us dancing around in our Christmas jammies, but that we tried our best to shine a light on things that we really care about.
All You Can Be with ADHD by Penn and Kim Holderness, illus. by Vin Vogel. Little, Brown, $19.99 Oct. 14 ISBN 978-0-316-59767-8
